46 replies to this topic

[ebbs]

Gave my new R15 a workout for the 2nd time in the past 4 days for the purpose of some intense prairie dog liquidation on some friends' land.

This was the first time I got a chance to use my Nikon Coyote Special (NCS from here out) riding on top of the R15 both for target shooting and shooting on live animals. Here's my first impression, short and sweet:

1. I HATE the circle reticles for target sighting and zeroing. I had a hard time matching it up with the bullseye (though I shot consistent MOA groups at zeroing on Saturday AND this morning) and holding it steady when compared with your standard crosshair.

2. and maybe contradictory to the first statement, I absolutely LOVE the circle reticle for target acquisition, quick shots and getting on animals. Not only was it incredible for lining up initial shots, but it was awesome for moving targets and fast follow up shots.

The NCS isn't just a center circle reticle, but built with a BDC reticle from Nikon. The problem with it is this: it attempts to standardize all ammunition and loads to fit that particular reticle. It doesn't allow for compensation for different loads, and even different scope heights. Being on my AR, even with the Burris PEPR mount, it's a good 2"+ off the center bore and plays some havoc with the BDC circles below the main. This creates a greater Point Blank Range which reduces holdover but isn't very BDC friendly. Today I was holding my top circle on dogs out to sub 400 yards.

I'm shooting an AR in .223, with 50 grain V-Max bullets. The NCS reticle is set up for a 55 grain FMJ at 3100 fps, while my 50 V-Max is running about 3200 to 3300 fps. This changes everything, though it doesn't make the BDC moot altogether. I just need to do some more shooting and find out where my impacts are for each of the circles and maybe go a bit low with my 100 yard zero.

All-in-all I think it's a match made in heaven, but being an old school cross hairs guy it's gonna take some adjusting. I HIGHLY recommend you try this though. Again, it's not a target practice scope, it's a hunting scope and for that purpose it's hard to beat!

Attached Files

•  Coyote_4.5-14x40.jpg   308.66K   52 downloads

Edited by ebbs, 10 August 2010 - 10:41 PM.

[youngdon]

Good write up ebbs. I'll have to investigate one of those and compare flight paths. I have to wonder why they would set up a COYOTE scope to match the ballistics of a FMJ. Most every predator hunter I know uses some sort of varmint bullet. Do you know is the 22-250 set up for the same bullet ?

[SWAMPBUCK10PT]

GOOD report ebbs----I can't see the circles very good-I perfure a single dot 2" high at 100 yds most critters DOR:smile2:

[ebbs]

youngdon said:

Good write up ebbs. I'll have to investigate one of those and compare flight paths. I have to wonder why they would set up a COYOTE scope to match the ballistics of a FMJ. Most every predator hunter I know uses some sort of varmint bullet. Do you know is the 22-250 set up for the same bullet ?

I probably misspoke a bit on the FMJ thing. It's calibrated for a 55 grain bullet, not necessarily a FMJ, and yes the 22-250 is set up for the same thing. As you can see on the reticle pic I posted it starts with a 200 grain zero instead of a 100 like the 223 requires. I'll be sure to post my findings when I figure out what MY BDC calibrations look like.

[youngdon]

The 200yd reticle makes total sense given the flat trajectory of the 22-250. I'll compare the flight paths of the 22-250 against my .243. All the calculation I make will be purely theoretical as I do not have a chronograph.

[youngdon]

Oh and ebbs, Thank you for using POINT BLANK RANGE correctly.

[Chris Miller]

Good writeup. Funny you mention the circle reticle. That's what sold me on this scope. I am more confident with them and shoot a lot better as a result.

[youngdon]

Check Nikons website, they have a few new scopes out.

[ebbs]

You're right, Don. Here's a pretty sweet video on their new M223 scope they're offering in a few different formats...

http://www.nikonhunt...23promov10.html

[youngdon]

The rapid acquisition reticle looks pretty sweet on one hand if you have time to adjust your turrets to a known distance and would provide a way to compensate for different velocities or bullet types as long as you figured it out in advance. The reality is that it probably requires more thinking than I care to do with a coyote approaching, I'd be better off sticking with my good ole standard plex reticle. The circle reticles like your coyote special seem to be workable once you figure out the drop if you are using a different velocity or type of bullet, it would be my choice of the two for coyote hunting.

[hassell]

youngdon said:

The rapid acquisition reticle looks pretty sweet on one hand if you have time to adjust your turrets to a known distance and would provide a way to compensate for different velocities or bullet types as long as you figured it out in advance. The reality is that it probably requires more thinking than I care to do with a coyote approaching, I'd be better off sticking with my good ole standard plex reticle. The circle reticles like your coyote special seem to be workable once you figure out the drop if you are using a different velocity or type of bullet, it would be my choice of the two for coyote hunting.

Don't see anything special about the scope except its only for AR's, my Tasco's I bought 30 yrs. ago do the exact same thing as those, I don't think the bullet types will be an issue unless your talking a 30 gr variance? Yes No!!!

[youngdon]

The turrets with the graduations on the outside that are of a pop-up design and adjustable, I think are pretty cool. yes you can adjust your tasco but the cap has to be taken off, you have to count the clicks, these are clearly marked, move it to 600yds shoot move it to 300 shoot. it's doable quicker than I can type it for sure. Bullet types will most certainly be an issue with velocity spreads at long distances.

[hassell]

youngdon said:

The turrets with the graduations on the outside that are of a pop-up design and adjustable, I think are pretty cool. yes you can adjust your tasco but the cap has to be taken off, you have to count the clicks, these are clearly marked, move it to 600yds shoot move it to 300 shoot. it's doable quicker than I can type it for sure. Bullet types will most certainly be an issue with velocity spreads at long distances.

Don't have to take no cap off, can turn mine faster then they can as I don't have to push it down, just turn to desired range and fire, works real well!!!

[youngdon]

Ok I remember those scopes, they are the same as the one new scope with the regular plex reticle the new ones are just graduated for the .223. I think I may have one of those still also, as I recall they came with more than one turret cap for different trajectories. Hmmm I'll have to check to see if I still have that, I don't remember selling it but I do suffer from Halveshiemers.

[ebbs]

I was thinking of that M223 scope more in terms of a scope to put on a SHTF battle rifle more than a hunting one. I'll take the circle reticle on my coyote any day over that for hunting purposes.

[hassell]

youngdon said:

Ok I remember those scopes, they are the same as the one new scope with the regular plex reticle the new ones are just graduated for the .223. I think I may have one of those still also, as I recall they came with more than one turret cap for different trajectories. Hmmm I'll have to check to see if I still have that, I don't remember selling it but I do suffer from Halveshiemers.

I have one on the 300 also, my extra cap hmm somewhere, also on the zoom adj. there's a spare one if your shooting something different, your suppose to line the top one with the back of the animal and focus in till the bottom lines up with the belly read the corresponding animal and yards it says its at then dial in on top turret the same yds. and shoot away. That part of this procedure I have never done, do know if your guess of yardage is close and you set the yds. it hits right where you aim, has never failed yet, a range finder would compliment the scope setup.

[youngdon]

YesI do have that same scope. I'll have to look somemore and see if I still have the second turret scale. I never used the range finding thingy either just sighted in 2" high at 100 as I recall. I am looking to swap some scopes around and it may find a new home.

[hassell]

youngdon said:

YesI do have that same scope. I'll have to look somemore and see if I still have the second turret scale. I never used the range finding thingy either just sighted in 2" high at 100 as I recall. I am looking to swap some scopes around and it may find a new home.

Ya I do the same, 1 1/2 to 2 in. both work, when I bought them I was a little leery as I've always been a Leopold guy, the guy at the store invited me out to the range to prove it, had both rifles with me, think the range only went to 300 or 350 yds. and he pointed to a rock that was way off the back of the range, don't remember the distance but farther than I would ever shoot at anything and nailed them both, my longest shot was 350 on a moose and hit it where I aimed using the scope dial, they have both held up over the years, the 300 has been through some tough country and no complaints!!!

[SWAMPBUCK10PT]

NCSpecial not for me, I haven't shot with one but my first impression wasn't good. I was looking through one at a dealer booth at the world predator expo in Columbus OH last march I just couldn't made out the circle's very well to thin for these old eyes. I do have a circle cross hair bushnell on my 24 -f savage rifle shotgun that I like also Mueller makes a dandy 2-7 circle dot. but like I said early fine cross hair and dot hard to beat 1" moa for varmints and 2" moa hunting 2" high @100 DOA:D dots are on target now none faster:twocents: here's a site you mite like T.K. Lee co . custom Dot reticles. www.scopedot.com

Edited by SWAMPBUCK10PT, 15 August 2010 - 08:45 AM.

[widoghog]

I own both the NCS which I have mounted to a Tikka T3 Varmint 22-250 that I had dipped in Kings Desert Shadow Camo and I have the M223 with the BDC reticle mounted to my R15. I must say that I love them both! I however handload so I worked my loads to meet the criteria outlined for both scopes. Within 5 shots I was taking the bullseye out of the target. I've only tried the Tikka at long range and I've had great success with that as well. My buddy bought one and put it on his Savage Predator hunter. He used some cheap factory ammo for sight in purposes and within 5 shots he too was taking the bull out of the target!! And those rounds were 45 grainers!! I think they are both great scopes. Both are crystal clear even in low light. I don't think you can go wrong with either.