18 replies to this topic

[Chris Miller]

Just wondering if you all know of realistic way to explain hunting and conservation to the anti's? Best I can tell, they are all pretty irrational, but I just didn't know if maybe there was some technique I was missing?

If you know of a way to have a constructive conversation with these people, please let me know. I'm not being sarcastic, and this question is not rhetorical either. I would really like to learn to have a respectful conversation with those who don't understand hunting. It always feels like arguing with a child though.

[youngdon]

I usually start (and I'll keep this brief) by asking them why they don't stop funding for the state game and fish, if we aren't allowed to harvest the animals why would we need G&F to manage them. They usually give some answer about their tax dollars being wasted. It's at that point that I know that they don't have a clue so I inform them that not one cent of their tax dollars go to game and fish all of their operating funds come from license sales and The Pittman Robertson Act. I have never run into a casual aquaintance that knew what the Pittman Robertson was, never. "But I just don't like you killing the animals" as they eat their burger or chicken nuggets or whatever "Where does that come from" I ask And "What would happen to the animals if we stopped harvesting them" "Would they stop pro-creating"? or "Would they starve to death " ? Imagine that. I try real hard to put the image of a deer starving to death in their heads.

Trying to explain predator hunting is a little different as I can't use the "I eat them instead of another poor cow" line.

It seems more difficult to type a hypothetical conversation than to actually have a real one.
Sorry , I have to take the wife to the airport now, more later.

[Helmet_S]

I personally like to point out that even animal activist groups such as peta put down animals. in the last few years the number of dogs alone that they had to put down were amoung the highest in our country. So with that said most usually shut up about hunting and then go on a rant about people having pets and they leave me alone.

I seriously don't try to convince them that hunting is needed or not but rather that their opinion is just that and mine may differ. I usually try to tell them that I don't push my opinions on them so they really shouldn't push theirs on me. If they then proceed to do so I start a very similar conversation as stated by YoungDon. Talking about animals suffering from starvation or disease.

The one point I love the best is explaining how a Coyote or another predator hunts down it's pray and kills it. I mean when you start talking about the predator going for the throat and biting and ripping the pray's flesh of they tend to get the point pretty quickly. In nature no animal cares about the other animals right to a quick and Humane death like an Ethical Hunter does. I mean it usually doesn't take to long to explain how it only takes seconds to hopefully only as long as minutes for a deer to die from a bullet but could take hours, days, weeks, months, etc, for the poor thing to die of starvation, disease, or predation. I find that when you compare real nature to the thoughts of some people alot of the world's views fall far short on what really happens. yes that bunny rabbit, deer, squirrel, etc, is very cute and cuddly but to a coyote it looks like a juicy steak with legs. Yes I don't eat coyote meat but yes they do indeed eat your cute and cuddly creatures that you don't like me to hunt and yes they do die of starvation and disease just like anything else living.

Sorry that got a little long winded and not everything is said as plan and to the point as this. As a hunter we have an Image to look out for and unfortunatly there are as many hunters out there making us look bad as there are activist trying to make us look bad.

Have a great day guys.

[hassell]

The few that I have had conversations with, and all of them have shut right up or left. I ask them if they have a picture window in their house which 99% of every one has, ask them how many song birds they have killed over the years that has flown into their window, end of conversation.

[TexAgBQ81]

I have been in the situation that youngdog mentions----i was in a conversation with a man who stated that he was opposed to hunting while he actually had a mouth full of hamburger(his second). if you have seen my short "bio" else where on here you may remember i ran hunting lodges for a living and actually had persons come to stay at the lodge and while there protest the harvesting of animals. this aformentioned man had such a distaste for hunting that when his son asked him to take him hunting when the son was a young teenager he took him to one of my lodges. when he did harvest a doe dad sat inside watching the football game and made his son do all of the butchering (with the assistance of one of my staff members) so that he would hate it so much he would never want to harvest an animal again. unfortunately it did not repell the young man which infuriated the father so much he would not let the boy take any part of the meat home. the last i heard from the father, his son did keep hunting even under protest from the father. most of the anti's that came to the lodges would not give you the time of day to listen to your side of the argument/discussion.

[Bigdrowdy1]

First off your asking a loaded question. You can only have a reasonable conversation where the other is open minded. Strike 1. If they honestyly wanted to understand, all they would need to do is watch NGC and watch wolves disembowle an elk and be eating it while it was still alive or watch coyotes tearing the rear out of a cow that was giving birth to a calf and they both are lost. I as a hunter find it hard to watch and feel for the animals enduring this kind of death. Hunters were probably the first to understand (Going Green) and using a renewable resourse and with proper management create more for satisfying the needs and make the populations greater and more healthy than any other time in history.The moneys generated from hunters and trappers goes directly to improving habitat and funding for the studies to improve the lives of the animals pursued. Today hunters create food plots for deer now true they may ( harvest) a deer or 2 but the whole herd or should I say many more benefit from this than those who lose theirs lives. (Harvest being a key word). Now consider the reality nobody ate meat it would not be as easy as that. The land would be stripped for the purpose of growing food. Would there be any habitat left for the animals( I think not) that would be a lost considering the needs of the people rather than understanding the mixture needed for both to occur. So in my opinion it is a waste of my time and focus to try and (reason) with people so narrow minded. I appologize if I myself seam narrow minded but I was raised that if aman does not have common sense it will not matter how smart he maybe their is no sense in trying to reason with a person who look down upon the most basic things in life. I will admit I do not know how many times the moon turns in a given 24 hour period but i can tell you how the moon phase affects wildlife. Look at the civilization before us the Myans they created a device that was more accurate that any measuring device known today from way back when!!!!!! But where are they today? Now I am not knocking them in any way but time will let the smarter and more fit speices survive. I am sorry I will jump down off my treestand and let others share. LIFE ISNOTLIKEA BOX OF CHOCOLATES ITS MORE LIKE A HAND FULL OF JALOPENOS WHAT YOU DO TODAY WILL BURN YOUR@#$ TOMORROW . Wow my finger is tirad sorry so long I kinda got started glad I was able to stop. Where is that Bottle??????

[bar-d]

Life is a bitch, then you die.

[LilBill]

when i do get in a discussion with one i always try to refrain from getting too worked up and showing it.that is what they want you to do.it is not too big of an issue with people in mid tn yet as most everyone hunts and fishes.i like to point out new subdivisions and them ask them where do they think the animals go?how many animals do they think an acre of land can support?when they plant new houses and streets, where we once planted corn ,that doubles the amount of wildlife to the surrounding habitat .i try to explain how we as sportsmen/women are virtually helping keep our wildlife population healthy by harvest.most of the time it falls on deaf ears.you are right though chris ,it is like arguing with a child.

[On a call]

Chris, I took and used your comment else where and here are a few of the thoughts I recieved.

I have ran into a lot of people at college that simply want to know more about hunting and trapping. I always start out by saying that we do it because we love the animal. Its out of respect for our quarry. I explain to them that even though we seek out to kill the animal, there is a part of us that is sad to see it go. When talking about trapping specifically, I tell them that there are thousands upon thousands of acres of land for an animal to set foot on but we try to get it to put its foot on one tiny square. We are not out to kill animals because we find enjoyment in the actual kill itself. We do it for the chase. We do it because most of the time the animal beats us and its the challenge to outsmart the animal in its own element that leads us to do what we do. Its that challenge, that respect for the animal that drives us to hunt and trap. And I always end the conversation by stressing that we do what we do because we love the animals we kill. That is the message that I want them to take home with them
_________________________
Nature is the art of God

[On a call]

I haven't had the time/chance to read through the previous posts, but I had to convince a bunch of anti's to let me trap in a local town-owned park this past fall.

A few tips: (1) Be truthful and honest in your approach. (2) Don't let them rattle you -- get you frustrated. (3) Clear up an untruths/misconceptions they have with solid facts. (4) Be considerate of their views -- we all have opinions and civil discourse goes a long way toward convincing your opponents. (5) Let them see you're human and that you truly believe in the heritage of your pursuits.

Not saying this will work for you, but it sure worked for me. We had an amiable meeting where we came together. Mutual respect works wonders -- just don't let them bully you. Your opinion is just as valid as thiers.
_________________________
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

[On a call]

I agree that many of them are irrational and don't even want to hear what you have to say, but I also have found that some just labor under the false notion that trapping is cruel. I have a very liberal cousin (don't know how she got that way in our family) who is very irrational when it comes to animal rights, hunting and trapping. A patient conversation with her revealed that she thought trappers used steel-toothed traps that break animal's legs and cause them pain and suffering. I explained to her how she was wrong about that, and showed her a trap and how it worked. She came away a bit more educated and a little less vehement, although I doubt she will ever take up trapping! Just be patient and explain the facts. If they won't hear you then just "shake the dust off your feet" (to put it in biblical terms). Good luck.
_________________________

[On a call]

There is only 1 predator on the face of the planet that has the capacity to care about how it's prey feels and choose a merciful death for it.

Us.

Everything else out there tears apart its prey and begins eating before it is even dead sometimes.

Stopping humans from hunting only means that 100% of predators out there will be savage, and an unkind, brutal death is the only thing prey animals have to look forward to.


More to your point about most natural deaths being cruel compared to the humane deaths which humans seek for their prey. Stravation , Contagion and the plummeling incurred in territorial infighting take longer to complete & mean much more suffering for animals.

Yes that is exactly right. If the person is still blinking after I explain that, I simply shrug and say "what this means is if people stopped hunting the world wouldn't be any more of a better place for animals. Us refraining from the hunt does nothing to improve their lives, but if we do hunt, responsibly, we can benefit species as a whole.

Having knee-jerk emotional responses and trying to 'save every last one' is typical for the compassionate person. It is admirable for them to feel for other creatures. However, it is not a response of an emotionally mature person.

Responsible conservationists are simply past the child-like stage where you want to save everything, and instead focus on the species as a whole, removing attachment from individuals. We have emotional maturity. Nature doesn't want every individual animal to survive, only the strongest, smartest and fittest. Those are precisely the ones that escape us and live to reproduce. Most hunts fail, it is difficult and takes great skills. Animals aren't going extinct in America because we have good laws. We hunt and trap fairly. It's the hunter's way of life going extinct.

Not everybody has to be a hunter but I can respect a person who doesn't want to hunt themselves but still allows hunting, even if the thought makes them sad. It means they are at least on the road to understanding, tolerance and maturity.

Edited by On a call, 12 July 2010 - 09:31 PM.

[youngdon]

Good Posts Brian. I for one am glad that not everyone wants to be a hunter... for purely selfish reasons I assure you.

[On a call]

Don I too am on the ground that you stand. It is the worry that one day too many idiots ( nieve ) will pass judgements that will continue and are affecting how we do bussiness. Education is a good thing...tv shows that pertray us as cold hearted, mean, selfish, inhumane, stupid, cruel, the list of adjectives is endless.

I do want to recrute and see kids finding the enjoyment and knowledge of hunting and trapping. It is a act of balance.

Chris keep up the good work. Perhaps we can use this information to find a way to educate others.

Edited by On a call, 13 July 2010 - 08:22 AM.
more info

[Tommy]

Everyone made such good comments here, I don't have anything to add, just reinterate that you cannot lose your temper, you have to remain the calm ADULT and make good judgement. If they refuse to listen, won't let you speak, start to be disrespectful, and basically act like the irrational, judgemental, uneducated people that SOME of them are, end the conversation tactfully, and respectfully excuse yourself. You do not have to talk to them, it is still a free country. I think people sometimes forget that, but these type of things are very delicate and you almost have to make an educated response to them.

Good luck guys and gals. Face it, we all have to take a bite of a dog sh...Uh, we all have to do things we don't want to do every now and again, looking one of these folks in the eye and engaging their rubbish is just one of em.

[youngdon]

Well put Tommy.

[On a call]

x2 on Dons comment.

[chris112]

Found a long time ago that you can't have a reasonable conversation if the other person is unreasonable.

[youngdon]

That is certainly true chris112, welcome to the forum.