45 replies to this topic

[ebbs]

I could probably remedy this with a google search but I enjoy the discussion with my buddies on PT more than that so I figured I'd throw this question out for a non-member I was talking to tonight (my Dad).

Chris Miller and I have been hounding him for the past few months to make his next hunting rifle an AR but he is wavering for two reasons: 1. his unfamiliarity with the weapon, 2. Difficulty in reloading for the AR.

I feel like there may have been a post on this a while back but I'll toss this out anyway. I've heard the reason it's difficult to reload for an AR is because of the velocity the spent casing is ejected with, damaging it on the way out of the receiver thus rendering it useless to future reloading. Is there an easy way to remedy this? I think if we could point him to a solution for the ammo side of the AR he'd be less reluctant to pull the trigger on it.

Thoughts?

Thanks guys, Ebbs

[knapper]

Different loads react differently when ejected. I have seen ones that throw them to the rear and change powder charge or brand will send them in front of the firing line. If the damage is the neck that can be taken out when run into the sizer die small side wall dents won't effect any thing except how it looks. If it is messes up the case so bad that it blows out the side wall or the primer stop using them and start over with lower charges, and the same can be said for too low of powder charge. I find that it is pretty easy on cases.

[ebbs]

Thanks for the insight, knapper. I'll pass it on.

[bar-d]

knapper said:

Different loads react differently when ejected. I have seen ones that throw them to the rear and change powder charge or brand will send them in front of the firing line. If the damage is the neck that can be taken out when run into the sizer die small side wall dents won't effect any thing except how it looks. If it is messes up the case so bad that it blows out the side wall or the primer stop using them and start over with lower charges, and the same can be said for too low of powder charge. I find that it is pretty easy on cases.

I agree with knapper Eric. I have picked up brass that was obviously fired from a semi auto and most had a small wall dent. The worst ones I have seen were fired from a Saiga. However, proper lubrication and running through full length resizing will remove all but the very worst of the dent. After resizing, if I feel the dent would cause a problem, I toss it. The beauty of the 5.56 Nato chamber is it is a little more forgiving as far as chambering a round.
By the way, I was digging postholes this morning and it started raining. I was afraid I would melt so I quit. That is why I am on PT this morning.

[Chris Miller]

I didn't realize you were talking about the ding, Eric. I thought you meant expanded shell casings.

I've heard guys on other forums use 3m tape, or electrical tape on the shell deflector to soften the impact. I've also heard of guys using a lighter ejector spring.

Most everyone I have heard from says no big deal for reloading. It should iron out for the most part in a full size reloading die and will completely disappear the next time it's fired.

Just reposting what I have heard from others. No first hand experience. The last 2 ARs I've had are easy on the brass. The old bushy.... Not so much.

[headhunter25]

I cut out a piece of the fuzzy side of some sticky back velcro and it works pretty good. Reloading .223/5.56 is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Just watch out for the military brass and you should be ok. A chamber gauge will serve you well also. I also use a Lee undersize die to size all my brass. Helps with the tight chambers of those Sabre barrels. If you are loading on a Dillon progressive loader give me a shout I can give you some tips that will spare you alot of headache.

Chris C.

[ebbs]

HH25 what's the difference in an undersize die compared to a standard 223 die. Like I said before, I'm not in a spot where I can reload, but was asking for my dad who was teetering on the edge of getting an AR for hunting because he was concerned about reloading. I know he recently bought a set of Lee .223 dies to prepare for his new venture, but I'm not sure if there's a specific way to let him know that undersized dies are a good way to go or even how to identify them. Is it an obvious difference?

BTW, great tip on the velcro. Seems really practical, cheap and effective.

[knapper]

I have found that different loads will throw the brass in different directions, spotted for a guy that was having problems and watched his brass being thrown all over, after that string was done he realized that there were two different powder charges had been used and explained his results.

[ebbs]

knapper said:

I have found that different loads will throw the brass in different directions, spotted for a guy that was having problems and watched his brass being thrown all over, after that string was done he realized that there were two different powder charges had been used and explained his results.

Knapper, 2 different powder charges in factory ammo or his own relaods?

[youngdon]

I would assume by undersized die he means a small base die. A small base die will size the case just a tad (or a hair if you prefer) (I don't have the exact figure) smaller. Some people use them for their auto loaders, I personally do not believe that they are necessary except in VERY rare circumstances ( usually a chamber cut right at the SAMMI minimum or smaller)I know a few guys who shoot competitively with match chambers and they do not use them. I think you are just overworking your brass, most of these guys probably had some brass that they did not size correctly and had feeding problems.

[Furhunter]

youngdon said:

I would assume by undersized die he means a small base die. A small base die will size the case just a tad (or a hair if you prefer) (I don't have the exact figure) smaller. Some people use them for their auto loaders, I personally do not believe that they are necessary except in VERY rare circumstances ( usually a chamber cut right at the SAMMI minimum or smaller)I know a few guys who shoot competitively with match chambers and they do not use them. I think you are just overworking your brass, most of these guys probably had some brass that they did not size correctly and had feeding problems.

youngdon is on the money with this post. I would too assume he is talking about small base dies and I would also say the same, they are not needed except for VERY rare circumstances.

[ebbs]

Thanks youngdon and Furhunter for the expertise and thoughts. Dad just picked up his AR on Friday and is just waiting on his .223 dies to start working up some handloads. I know he's extremely pumped and the thoughts and tips in this thread have done wonders to give him confidence with reloading for the AR. I haven't quite convinced him to hop on PT just yet, but I have a feeling it's only a matter of time.

[hassell]

ebbs said:

Thanks youngdon and Furhunter for the expertise and thoughts. Dad just picked up his AR on Friday and is just waiting on his .223 dies to start working up some handloads. I know he's extremely pumped and the thoughts and tips in this thread have done wonders to give him confidence with reloading for the AR. I haven't quite convinced him to hop on PT just yet, but I have a feeling it's only a matter of time.

Your DAD'S more than welcome on PT, I'm sure he can tell us some good stories about YoursTruly!

[bar-d]

youngdon said:

I would assume by undersized die he means a small base die. A small base die will size the case just a tad (or a hair if you prefer) (I don't have the exact figure) smaller. Some people use them for their auto loaders, I personally do not believe that they are necessary except in VERY rare circumstances ( usually a chamber cut right at the SAMMI minimum or smaller)I know a few guys who shoot competitively with match chambers and they do not use them. I think you are just overworking your brass, most of these guys probably had some brass that they did not size correctly and had feeding problems.

I reload with standard .223 dies, not the small base die. While messing with my ar problem, I even went so far as to check a resized case out of my standard dies against new factory ammo with my digital calipers. Resized brass was identical to new factory brass. What more could you ask for?

[ebbs]

hassell said:

Your DAD'S more than welcome on PT, I'm sure he can tell us some good stories about YoursTruly!

Will do. He'd be our resident TC expert for sure. It's what he specializes in at his home shop. The AR was a pretty big step from him. He called me today and was pumped because he scored ten 30 round mags for $50 in awesome shape from an ex-military fella. They're all Colt and another subsidiary company that manufactures under contract for the military and he had replaced all the springs and the followers so they were like new. Must have been hurting bad for cash.

I couldn't ask for more, Danny. He's going to be excited when all this starts working out smooth so long as he doesn't have bolt issues like you . He's wanting to make a trip down to Co Springs when they're here in August to have Bill Springfield work some magic on the trigger. He's a fast learner...

[ebbs]

hassell said:

Your DAD'S more than welcome on PT, I'm sure he can tell us some good stories about YoursTruly!

By the way Rick, he might have a few stories about our buddy Chris Miller too.

[Chris Miller]

ebbs said:

By the way Rick, he might have a few stories about our buddy Chris Miller too.

And that's why his membership is "pending"

[bar-d]

Aha, a potential source of "intel".

[TC4ME]

hassell said:

Your DAD'S more than welcome on PT, I'm sure he can tell us some good stories about YoursTruly!

Hey guys, this is Marty at TC4ME, I'm EBBS dad and this is my time ever on a forum like this. I really appreciate the help with the reloading a 223 topic. Am anxious to give it a try and make it work. And yes I do have "Intel" on Ebbs and Chris Miller. Just ask Ebbs about his first 2 confimed kills with his first single shot shotgun at age 11. We'll start with that. Thanks again.

[hassell]

Now, This is really going to get interesting! I'm sure there's pictures to back up alot of these stories? Welcome to PT. You will probably enjoy this more than him, his stories will have to be bang on!